Anyone who has made curry at home knows that it tastes even better the day after. Much like how Goku's frequently late arrivals serve to build anticipation, sometimes waiting a little can make something even more worthwhile. And that applies just as much to Dragon Ball.

Chika Tanabe and Nozomi Sakayori are two members of the comedian quartet known as Borujuku, who upon re-reading and re-watching the Dragon Ball manga and anime as adults found themselves hooked on it to the point that the beloved franchise has become a part of their everyday lives.

We spoke with these two comedic talents at length about why consuming Dragon Ball through the lens of a maturing adult, parent, and performer is exactly what makes it such a fascinating story.

*Interview was conducted while maintaining strict coronavirus prevention protocols.

The Road to Getting Re-Hooked on Dragon Ball Started with a Dislike for Gohan

——How did you two first experience Dragon Ball?

Chika Tanabe (herein Tanabe): I'm sure it was because of my little brother. He would watch Dragon Ball on TV, so I ended up watching with him. Back then I watched without really paying attention because it's just what happened to be on TV, so I never really understood what was going on. All I really took away from it was that Goku seemed strong (laughs).

But that changed when Future Trunks first appeared. When I saw him, I thought, "Who is that?!" As a child it was a revelation; I had never seen anyone so cool before! His introduction had my heart and mind racing.

Nozomi Sakayori (herein Sakayori): For me it was my family. My brother, who's three years older than me, was a Dragon Ball fan, and my parents liked manga too, so there were always issues of Shonen Jump around the house that I would read all the time. Not to mention we had a copy of Dragon Ball Z: Super Butoden for the Super Famicom, so I also played that too. Tanabe and I also made it a point to watch the anime week to week.

——How did you end up getting hooked on Dragon Ball again as adults?

Tanabe: I ended up re-watching it because TOKYO MX began showing reruns of Dragon Ball Z on Tuesdays. I was about 27 at the time and I fell in love with it.

Sakayori: Tanabe and I had teamed up professionally around that time, and one day she asked me if I liked Gohan after saying something like, "I actually can't forgive him for what he did." It was the first time I had ever met someone who didn't like Gohan. I never knew anyone like that existed. I had to know more, so I decided to re-read the manga by using the money I had saved from my part-time job at Hidakaya (a Japanese restaurant chain) and buying the entire Complete Edition. I read it from top to bottom and I was hooked.

——I have to ask, Tanabe, what was your problem with Gohan?

Tanabe: It was the way he behaved in the Cell arc (referring to when Gohan had the chance to finish Cell off for good, but didn't do so, allowing Cell the opportunity to almost blow himself up, which forced Goku to sacrifice his life). Seeing that just got my blood boiling, and my anger led to a bit of a conflict with Sakayori, so I went around asking other comedians what they thought about Gohan. Even though I say I don't like him, I probably think about him more than anyone else (laughs).

Sakayori: Yeah, you really couldn't get her to stop talking about Gohan.

Tanabe: We started re-watching the anime intensely together after that. At the time CX (Fuji TV) and MX were both showing reruns, so we could basically watch it every night. After the episode finished I would always want to talk about it, so I'd asked Sakayori about what she thought about this and that. Before I knew it, Dragon Ball was becoming a bigger and bigger part of our lives (laughs).

Sakayori: By reading the manga after watching the anime, I started to notice which scenes were exclusive to the anime. That's always fun to discover. Like how the episode with Great Saiyaman was actually just a short section of the manga.

Tanabe: Wait, really?! I know I said I don't like Gohan, but I actually love Great Saiyaman. There's something about him that's so calming. I always want a character to have a lot of dimensions to them.

——Has your impression of Dragon Ball changed as an adult?

Tanabe: My impression of Dragon Ball as an adult is entirely different from when I was a kid. When I was a kid my takeaway was just, "Goku's strong!" and "Only Goku can beat him!" and the like. That's why I could hardly believe it when Gohan found a level of strength above his father's.

Also, I don't think I liked Vegeta and Piccolo as a kid either since they were both bad guys. I couldn't appreciate how their characters developed as the story progressed.

But revisiting it as an adult, I think all of the characters have their own unique appeal, not just Goku.

And now I understand that it's only natural Gohan did what he did. He was only 10 years old after all, so of course he got carried away after gaining so much power all at once. But as a kid I just couldn't understand his state of mind at the time.

Sakayori: Tanabe's outlook on Gohan was so foreign to me. When I was a kid, Gohan was the closest to me in age, so I really identified with him while I watched. So the reason I ended up liking Piccolo was because he was nice to Gohan. Now as an adult it's the opposite; I find Gohan too strong and hard to relate to.

Tanabe: Our thoughts on the characters changed a lot.

Sakayori: The same goes for Krillin. I thought he was so awful for cheating in order to pass Kamesennin's test. But after watching the series as a whole, I don't think of him that way at all.

Tanabe: Yeah! Krillin's actually amazing. Goku, Vegeta, and the others are so strong that I could understand him giving up. But the way he keeps doing his best is really something.

Sakayori: He puts in the effort, even after it seems like he's not needed anymore. And the way he's so upfront in the way he praises Goku whenever he gets stronger shows that the two of them are more than just comrades: they're true friends.

Tanabe: His interactions with Android 18 during the Cell arc were his finest moments. I remember thinking, "Hey, not bad! This guy's a real man after all!"

Sakayori: I don't think Toriyama meant to give Krillin a reward per say, but I think he created a nice life for him in the end as a way to balance out all the hardships he had to endure.

Intense Feelings for a More Tender Vegeta and Appreciating Chichi's Motherhood

——Did your favorite character change upon revisiting Dragon Ball?

Tanabe: My outlook on many of the characters changed, but the biggest change was with Vegeta. I watched Dragon Ball every week as a kid, and I never cried once, but Vegeta made me bawl my eyes out as an adult. When he first came to earth he was all pride and nothing else, but after marrying Bulma and having Trunks, I think he finally started to accept his own vulnerabilities. Vegeta's development is amazing and unexpected. You can compare him to Goku to a certain extent, but as a father Vegeta is outstanding. I'd never want to marry Goku, but I'd totally marry Vegeta (laughs).

Sakayori: When the teenaged version of his son was killed by Cell, he charged in headfirst without hesitating, even though he stood no chance of winning.

Tanabe: So true! He's so devoted to his family. His relationship with Goku is also great in how they both see each other as rivals.

Sakayori: How great was it when Vegeta swallowed his pride and admitted how strong Goku is during the Majin Buu arc? I breezed right past that part in the manga as a kid because I wanted to see more of the fighting, but reading it now as an adult I can really understand Vegeta's inner conflict.

Tanabe: I think Vegeta's the real main character of the Majin Buu arc. Or rather, instead of trying to say who's the main character, maybe it makes more sense to look at each character having their own story.

Sakayori: Just like Vegeta's fatherhood, Chichi's motherhood also made an impression on me. When Goku would take Gohan to go save the world, Chichi would always worry about her son and protest. As a kid I thought, "Why is she always like that!? The fate of the world is more important than your son!"

But now that I have a son on my own, I can't stand the thought of him getting tangled up in such a dangerous fight (laughs). When I read that scene where Chichi storms up to Majin Buu and slaps him right across the face because she thinks he killed Gohan, as a parent I thought, "Oh, Chichi's a mom all right!"

Tanabe: You're right. That reminds me of something the two of us talk about a lot: that it's really good that Goku and Bulma just stayed friends.

Sakayori: With any other shonen manga, you'd expect them to wind up together.

Tanabe: And yet, Bulma suddenly gets with Vegeta!

Sakayori: That scene floored me. And when Trunks told that to Goku in confidence, Piccolo's ears were so sharp he heard it too.

Tanabe: Right, right, right! I love that! I wish I had ears like Piccolo's so I could hear all sorts of juicy info.

Sakayori: Teenage Trunks was so excited to meet Vegeta, so that must mean that Bulma didn't say anything bad about him.

Tanabe: I've heard of mothers talking bad about their children's fathers to them to the point that their children no longer respect their dad, but Bulma's not the type to do that. It might be because she's a little older in the future. Now that we're on the subject, what did you think of Bulma when you were little?

Sakayori: She didn't leave much of an impression, honestly. I never thought anything like, "Bulma's so cool! I love her!"

Tanabe: I hear you! For me, I found her to be a little abrasive. As a kid I only really noticed how strong each character was, so I found myself thinking, "Bulma again? But she's so weak!" (laughs). I didn't realize that a character like her who's a little selfish but also very cunning can be a lot of fun in their own right.

Sakayori: There are times where you can tell she was raised well. I liked how she always had a special way to refer to Goku, like "Little Son Goku" or even just "Son".

Tanabe: All of Toriyama's female characters have their own charm, but I'm partial to Videl. I always cry no matter how many times I watch her fight with Spopovich.

Sakayori: She refused to give up despite how much pain she was in and even with everyone, including Gohan, telling her to throw in the towel. Also, now that I'm an adult I picked up on the fact that she doesn't hate her dad, Mr. Satan, at all; she actually respects him. That must mean he's a good father in his own right, too.

Tanabe: True! You might be right. Especially considering she was in high school during the Majin Buu arc, and kids that age tend to resent their fathers a little.

In Dragon Ball, it's normal for the main cast to fly and shoot blasts of energy. But Videl is just an ordinary girl, so she can't do any of that at the start. Despite that monolithic gap in strength, she never quits, and that's one of the things that makes her strong. If it were me, I'd just accept that those people are in a different league and call it quits, but Videl always did her best. She's awesome. Toriyama creates female characters who are stylish, cool, and strong, but also feel realistic.

Sakayori: Videl is a character who, while very pretty and cute, isn't that different from normal women. She feels like someone that could be living somewhere not that far away from us. And after she married Gohan and had a kid, she became a great mom too.

Making Peace at Long Last: A New Appreciation for Gohan After Watching SUPER HERO

——Are there any characters who you think are similar to yourselves?

Tanabe: I'd love to say, "Bulma!" but I don't really have anything in common with her. My name doesn't even have a "Bu" in it (laughs). So for me it has to be Yajirobe. There's nothing cool about him (laughs), but he's good at surviving by running away whenever danger approaches. I wish I could be more like Vegeta, though.

Sakayori: If I was in the world of Dragon Ball, maybe I'd be Pual? My voice is similar to Chaoz's, but I doubt I'd have as many scenes as him. I wish I could be Dende.

Tanabe: Oh yeah, Dende's great!

Sakayori: He's smart, and he's good friends with Piccolo too (laughs). Like I said earlier, Piccolo's always been my favorite since I was a kid. He may have been born evil, but the way he began to become allies with everyone makes me think maybe deep down he has a really pure heart. I also like how many silly faces Piccolo pulls in the second half of the story.

Tanabe: I like Gohan and Piccolo's relationship, but his interactions with kid Trunks and Goten are also great. He's actually a really caring person!

Sakayori: I tend to daydream about Piccolo training me at my old job (laughs). When I heard about the trailer for the latest movie (Dragon Ball Super: SUPER HERO, which premiered 6/11/2022 in Japan), for some reason Tanabe was under the impression Vegeta was going to be working at a bread store. Ever since then we've had a lot of fun chats about what would happen if Piccolo ran a bakery! (laughs)

Tanabe: Like, what kind of bread Piccolo would bake and so on. No matter what we're talking about, at some point Dragon Ball ends up becoming the topic of discussion. (laughs)

Sakayori: I'd daydream like that by myself as a kid, but those fantasies became way more elaborate once I talked about them with Tanabe.

Tanabe: I'm usually not a fan of making up stories like that, but it's actually fun to do when Sakayori's around to talk to. I think our greatest work is our story about Piccolo and the others going to Disneyland. (laughs)

——One of the most noteworthy aspects of the new movie is the large role that Gohan plays. Did that help change your thoughts about him, Tanabe?

Tanabe: Quite a lot, yes. I actually buried the hatchet with Gohan a little bit before I saw the movie. Tomohiro Kamiyama from Johnny's West is also a Dragon Ball fan, and any time we perform together that's all we talk about. But I realized I had never asked him which character he liked, so one time I tried asking, and he told me he liked Gohan from the Cell arc. I remember thinking about how he's my least favorite and I just blurted out, "I don't like that version of Gohan." I always make it a point not to put down things other people like, so I must have been trying to sabotage myself or something when I said that. I've regretted it ever since.

After that happened, I felt it was time to finally confront Gohan by watching the Cell arc one more time. When I did so, I came to realize that he made that mistake because he was so young. For me, the movie's premier couldn't have been timed any better, since it came out just after I made my peace with Gohan.

Sakayori: You finally learned to get along with him.

Tanabe: I felt a lot of anticipation after I saw the trailer when it showed Gohan in his glasses turning Super Saiyan. It was the first time I had ever felt that way towards him. I'm a sucker for blond guys with glasses (laughs).

I came into the movie with the attitude that I was apologizing to Gohan for misunderstanding him and saying I didn't like him. Thanks to that, I really appreciated his relationship with Piccolo and how much he cherished his daughter, Pan. I always thought of Gohan as a child, but the movie made me realize how amazing he had become. I really enjoyed it.

Sakayori: When I heard Piccolo would be taking the lead in the story, all the thoughts and feelings I had towards Piccolo deep inside began to swell, almost to the point that I was a little scared to watch the movie. There's such a huge difference between Piccolo that I daydreamed about and the real character. I felt as though I owed him an apology or something. But when I watched the movie for myself, I felt like we became friends and that maybe he would go to Disneyland with me after all. He became my ideal Piccolo (laughs). I felt confident that even after I become an old woman, I'll always like Piccolo, and that put my mind at ease.

Tanabe: I also really loved the previous movie, Dragon Ball Super: Broly, but SUPER HERO exceeded all my expectations. It's my favorite of all the movies so far. I know they can't hold special screenings where the audience is allowed to participate through cheering due to current circumstances, but if they had one for this movie, I'm sure the audience would get fired up. Once it comes out on home video, I want to have a special screening with Sakayori and cheer with her. But in any case, I think it's amazing how Dragon Ball can continue to find new ways to be fun and exciting even though it's been around for so long.

Being Able to Share Dragon Ball with Children and Enjoy It Together Is Amazing

——Has Dragon Ball had any effect on the way you think or your outlook on life?

Sakayori: After realizing how amazing Krillin is, I find myself wanting to put all my effort into the things I'm able to do. And I really admire Videl's unwavering determination too.

Tanabe: It might have had the same effect on me too. No matter how desperate things get, the characters in Dragon Ball never give up. Even if it's the type of situation that anyone would want to run away from, they still push forward and never back down. I also feel like I learned a lot about cherishing those closest to me from Dragon Ball.

Sakayori: Before we all formed the Borujuku quartet, Tanabe and I used to be a duo known as Nekojuku, and our other two members, Haru and Anri, used to be a rival duo called Shinboru. Now we're all good friends who compete together as part of the same comedy group. That's a lot like Dragon Ball when you think about it.

——Even the name Borujuku is like the fusion name of your two groups.

Tanabe: Now that you mention it, you're right! Also, I'm not comparing him to anyone else specifically, but to me, Goku is the greatest hero. There's other manga that I like too, but I don't think anyone is able to measure up to Goku in my mind.

Sakayori: Whenever Goku appears, you know things will work out.

Tanabe: But these days I find Vegeta really appealing.

Sakayori: When you grow up, you want someone who shows a little vulnerability over someone who's the absolute strongest.

Tanabe: Exactly. The flaws in a person show their humanity, which is appealing. Vegeta realizes when he's lost, and the strength he gains through that despair is attractive. Even Goten and the others talk to Vegeta like he's family. As time passed on, even Vegeta grew close with those around him. It's easy for us to miss details like that as readers, but it's deeply moving when you stop and think about it (laughs). It's hard to get a sense of the passage of time in most manga, but many Dragon Ball characters show signs of aging. Like how Goku hit that huge growth spurt before one of the Tenkaichi Budokai tournaments. I'll never get over how shocking it was when he first appeared like that. Even though he hadn't changed one bit on the inside (laughs).

Sakayori: The way Bulma and Chichi's hairstyles change to make them look more like mothers also shows how much time has passed between chapters.

——Does Dragon Ball come across differently as a mother?

Tanabe: Dragon Ball is a story for both parents and children. Mitarashi-chan (nickname for Sakayori's three-year-old son) and I are also close thanks to Dragon Ball.

Sakayori: Tanabe knows how much I like Piccolo, so she gave me a Penenko plushie. My son took one look at it, called it "kitty", and started taking it to pre-school with him.

Tanabe: That made me happy. Even though we're 30 years apart, he and I have Dragon Ball in common. I want him to watch more and more Dragon Ball as he grows up.

Sakayori: I'm still showing it to him. I don't think he fully grasps it yet, but he understood how strong Frieza was when he was watching the anime. Ideally I'd like Tanabe and my son to be as close as Krillin and Goku.

Tanabe: We've also talked about dressing Mitarashi-chan up as a Dragon Ball character and doing a group cosplay together.

Sakayori: Anri would be Karin, Tanabe would be Yajirobe, and I'd be Kami. Haru (Haruka Kiriyu) would cosplay as Mr. Popo and her son would be a young Goku. The reason is because all those characters have spent at least some time in Kami's Palace high above Earth.

Tanabe: Having kids around means that there are more ways to enjoy Dragon Ball.

Sakayori: Since my son is interested in Dragon Ball, I'm starting to watch it with him. Of course there are newer movies to enjoy, but I'm sure I'll discover new things by re-watching the older works with him. I think the way I perceive things changes, not just because I'm getting older, but also because of my new lifestyle.

Tanabe: I can see a lot of little Pan in Mitarashi-chan when I watch Dragon Ball, so that creates all sorts of new emotions. I think that's one new discovery right there. Being able to share the things you watched as a child with the children of today is really something special.

——Both of you seem to have found a lot of Dragon Ball's deeper aspects by re-reading it.

Sakayori: I urge anyone who never re-reads manga to reconsider. Of course I also want them to watch the recent anime too.

Tanabe: For anyone who doesn't know whether to read the manga or watch the anime because they're both so long, I say you can't go wrong with either. Once you start, you won't be able to stop!

Sakayori: For some reason I started with Volume 9 and read it all the way to the end, so I started re-reading it from Volume 1 (laughs). So it's fine if you don't necessarily start from the very beginning.

Tanabe: Just like how Goku and the others always seek out ways to become stronger, I want us to continue to grow as people. You should never be satisfied with things being "good enough". As a performer, I never want to compromise when it comes to my comedy. I'll always strive to improve.

Interviewer / Writer: tvnosukima
Photography: Kayo Sekiguchi